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Britain in Siegel's Die Flagge (1912)

Last modified: 2010-12-29 by rob raeside
Keywords: britain | siegels flag chart | die flagge | scotland | england |
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England

[Flag of England in Siegel's flag chart] image by Klaus-Michael Schneider and Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 8 November 2008

This flag illustrated in the Siegel's Die Flagge (1912) for England is a quarterly divided ogival pennant showing the arms of France (three golden (= yellow) fleur de lys, ordered triangular, in a blue field) in the 1st and 4th quarter and the arms of England (three golden (= yellow) passant lions in a red field) in the 2nd and 3rd quarter.
Primary source: “Conocimiento de todos los reinos (14th century)
Source: [Siegel's Die Flagge (1912)]; flagchart 17; row 5; column 1
Klaus-Michael Schneider, 8 November 2008

Siegel: "England. Drei goldene Löwen im roten Felde, quadriert mit drei goldenen Lilien im blauen Felde. Dies war die Köningliche Standarte von 1340-1603 mit kurzer Unterbrechung."
(England: Three golden lions on red fields, quartered with three gold lilies on blue fields. This was the Royal Standard from  1340-1603, with a short interruption.)

Curiously, the text and the image differ in the order of the quarters. Checking with the page on English royal standards, it turns out that the images are correct. It also tells us that the flag of 1340 had the French quarter semé de fleur-de-lys, as the French arms at the time. We have it that first the House of Lancaster introduced the version matching the changed French arms with three lilies. However, though Henry's seal of 1406 shows the quartering to include only three lilies, that can't be the source for a mid 14th century manuscript. Either the manuscript is from the 15th century, or the change in fact happened much earlier. Matching, the banner of France is also depicted with three lilies; this could mean that the manuscript is from after 1376, or that the simpler flag was already in use before the formal change.

This image appears on plate 17, the first of the forty-eight flag plates in Siegel's book Die Flagge (1912). The plate, though in the rear of the book, shows the flags described on page 46. The source for the images is given on that page as: "Conoscimento de todos los reinos". Wiedergegeben von Duro in La Marina de Castilla (Historia generale de España). Madrid o. J. S. 156/157.
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg
, 20 November 2010


Scotland

[Flag of Scotland in Siegel's flag chart] image by Klaus-Michael Schneider and Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 8 November 2008

This flag illustrated in the Siegel's Die Flagge (1912) for England is a red ogival pennant showing the arms known as arms of England(!), i.e. three golden(= yellow) passant lions in its red field, though the pennant is denoted as that one from Scotland.
Primary source: “Conocimiento de todos los reinos (14th century)
Source: [Siegel's Die Flagge (1912)]; flagchart 17; row 4; column 3
Klaus-Michael Schneider, 8 November 2008

Siegel: "Schottland. Drei goldene Löwen in rotem Felde, ähnlich den englischen. Schottland hatte später nur einen Löwen." (Scotland: Three golden Lions on a red field, similar to the English. Scotland later had but just one lion.)

Apparently Siegel believes this to be true. It doesn't match what we have on our page on Scottish royal flags. I wonder whether the information about Scotland in the manuscript is coloured by an English perspective?

These images appear on plate 17, the first of the forty-eight flag plates in Siegel's book Die Flagge (1912). The plate, though in the rear of the book, shows the flags described on page 46. The source for the images is given on that page as: "Conoscimento de todos los reinos". Wiedergegeben von Duro in La Marina de Castilla (Historia generale de España). Madrid o. J. S. 156/157.
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg
, 20 November 2010


 
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